Indigene Rechte in Westpapua und der Kampf gegen die Umweltzerstörung Teil 1

00:00:07: Peace Brigades International presents Making Space for Dialogue Human Rights Defenders Report.

00:00:16: Let's dive right into it.

00:00:17: For those people who might not have an idea of West Papua, like what is this region?

00:00:23: What makes itself special?

00:00:24: could one of you maybe Try and explain to me the relationship between West Papua as an autonomous region, and this state of Indonesia.

00:00:33: And maybe give us some idea off.

00:00:35: you know... ...the historical development?

00:00:38: What makes these regions so special?

00:00:40: Natalia!

00:00:41: Maybe you can begin saying a few words just to give us an idea.

00:00:45: what makes your home so special?

00:00:47: For me, Papua is very beautiful place.

00:00:52: If you go to Papua Someday you will see a lot of beautiful place that you can visit.

00:01:01: but the sad things is there are so many problems that Papuan people experience not just Papuan People, But of course our nature Our environmental.

00:01:15: it's also experienced The disaster That made by some people not responsibility.

00:01:25: And Papua is a one place that until now still part of Indonesia and as internationally, Papua known well as West Papua we integrate with Indonesia since We experience a lot of socio-economic problems.

00:02:00: If you go to Papua, there are a lot military in there and because the military occupation is one problem not just military occupations but other problems

00:02:15: And from what I read about West Papua one of the problems is this special autonomy, right?

00:02:21: That status that comes with it.

00:02:23: So maybe we can learn a bit more from you... ...about what does this special autonomy mean on political level but also for people who live in the area of West Papuwa.

00:02:35: Just

00:02:35: like Natalia explained to us there's history of integration from West Papua to Indonesia, but there are lots of people that didn't want to... West Papu to join in Indonesia and the plebiscite itself also have like some kind of problem.

00:02:54: That needs to be resolved.

00:02:56: But until now either the mass human rights violation or the history integration of West Papuan to Indonesia hasn't been resolved clearly, I mean explained by the Indonesia government itself.

00:03:12: Then because of the long history of conflict and also Indonesia has authoritarian regime under Suharto era after suharto wasn't a president anymore there was a bit of...I think like some kind of league of democracy hope for democracy in Indonesia.

00:03:32: BJ Habibi once took place as the president and some of Papuan people came to Jakarta talk about The history of the plebiscite itself, integration And say their aspiration To have like a real referendum.

00:03:51: One-man one vote type.

00:03:53: but then the discussion is.

00:03:56: After that, Gustdor also took place as the president.

00:04:00: The Morning Star Flag was able to be raised in Papua and declared part of the cultural identity of West Papua.

00:04:13: In that... I think around in two thousand one to resolve all the discussion about referendum and also the Papuan's aspiration, Indonesia government gives special autonomy to Papua.

00:04:31: Special autonomy itself is power for I think a provincial government to govern themselves mostly more dominantly than national governments.

00:04:42: so... And in the special autonomy of Papua In some articles there are explicitly said about the indigenous women, indigenous Papuan.

00:04:55: So like... The term is Orang Aseli-Papua, Indigenous Papuans and how state acknowledged their rights, acknowledge the indigenous papuan's right in autonomy.

00:05:08: Since the special autonomy I guess From our research, we found that there has been influx of transmigrations and also lots of deforestation, land conversion to palm oil plantation or any kind of extractive industries.

00:05:28: And since with the development and extractive industry comes a lot of transmigration from and other parts in Indonesia, with the access of money.

00:05:44: And also lots of people came to their Papuan's places... Maybe we can say that?

00:05:56: Lots of indigenous Papuan feel isolated as well as resided because they have no access The education, no access to the employment or jobs but their forests are being taken and also they feel more marginalized.

00:06:24: There has been a marginalization for indigenous Papuan because there is not development that focuses on building the indigenous Papuans against sea doing what they want.

00:06:39: I just have one question, because you were speaking now about how indigenous people in general are very strongly affected by this political struggle and also the authoritarian regime And You guys actually published a book Which I find extremely interesting.

00:06:57: It is called all the birds are gone with a beautiful cover.

00:07:00: We're together looking at it now, it's really a great work and an interesting read for everyone.

00:07:05: Really who was interested in this case?

00:07:08: In the struggle of West Papuan indigenous women But perhaps also in the struggle for climate justice in general.

00:07:15: but let me turn back because something that I went on The book which i found so interesting Is that you are saying Indigenous Women Are particularly affected by these political struggles are particularly affected... ...by this autonomous state and the pressure that comes from the national government, the military.

00:07:36: So maybe we can speak a bit more like why is it especially women?

00:07:41: And especially indigenous women who were so affected with those struggles?

00:07:47: Why indigenous women in Papua?

00:07:50: I think women all over the world face problems almost same, such as in Papua.

00:07:58: In Papua we're living under our culture.

00:08:02: that not make us women...not give indigenous women more privilege like a man.

00:08:10: so and indigenous women in Papuan they still live very close with forests.

00:08:19: They have the mind part to handle all the things inside forests.

00:08:26: And indigenous women in Papua, they're very close with nature.

00:08:30: They go to their nature and get a lot of some things that can be used for cooking.

00:08:39: Some stuff is in forest where they use it as medicine.

00:08:44: There are lots of things that indigenous people in Papuan we'll be doing in the forest.

00:08:51: Maybe I'm not talking about indigenous women like me but indigenous women, like Mama Ferro.

00:08:58: they are living very close with nature.

00:09:02: But right now when there's special autonomy in Papua In Indonesia if you're following the Papuan issues especially the special autonomy You can see that Indonesians just talking about money.

00:09:19: If they talk about special autonomy, They're just talking of money.

00:09:23: This is very opposite with the purpose of the Special Autonomy.

00:09:28: So right now when the special autonomy come to Papua Right Now Papua has two province and will be adding three provinces.

00:09:42: so you can see that We can earn money or we can get money very easily in Papua because the government, I don't know but i think this is very structurally make Papuan people very depends on money and Because of our culture.

00:10:00: that very patriarchy it's makes women Don't have access to some things like being a head off Village head.

00:10:12: Because right now if you being a head village, You will be get more money.

00:10:18: And in some places I'm not saying that all place in Papua but several places in Papu the men Always being ahead of village and they have a lot of money.

00:10:29: after They get money, there will be going to the big city And then we'll spend that money To making everything that they want.

00:10:37: The women?

00:10:38: There will stay in the in the Village and they Will Be Everything In nature to provide their life.

00:10:46: so based on this you can imagine if the company come to their place and Plane something like oil palm in there, you can imagine the women that's very close or they usually gardening in clothes with their house.

00:11:04: They will be go to a long way too.

00:11:08: get all this stuff.

00:11:12: Yeah, thank you so much.

00:11:13: I think this really helped us understanding a bit better what puts women in this very special position.

00:11:19: and You just mentioned the big companies that come right?

00:11:22: The big companies then would for instance start a plantation In the forest there used to be home of women and indigenous people And i actually read with the big company that come there for profit, do all this deforestation to grow crops.

00:11:41: I also read often when the military comes right?

00:11:45: And you have a stronger presence of the military and militarization.

00:11:49: is it something you could explain better like what's the relationship between these big companies oftentimes international companies and then the military?

00:11:59: Yes special autonomy actually opens lots gates open a big gate.

00:12:06: Lots of investors came, they indexed extractive industries came and opened lots of forests.

00:12:12: And since special autonomy the amount of military that has been dropped in lot's places in Papua also increasing.

00:12:21: So the military approach is still used by Indonesia government to quote-unquote secure and secure the Papua land guarantee the security.

00:12:35: But in reality, actually military has done lots of mass human rights violations in Papua.

00:12:42: even there are some arbitrary arrests for people who held protests protecting their forests and land.

00:12:52: also like military acted as a company's security.

00:13:00: The companies are using military to secure their plantation, to secure the public's office.

00:13:12: And the military claims that as a national asset... ...the company is an international asset and yeah thats why lots of indigenous people, lots of Papuans who protest against Company or even the land conversion got repressed by the military.

00:13:35: And in Papua, you will see that if there is one company for example You'll be seeing that The company would involve the military to keep their business and those military they'd pretend like it's just security.

00:13:55: But no!

00:13:56: They are military.

00:13:58: And that's why when the company not provide all the promise they already making for indigenous people in there, When the indigenous people come to protest with them They will be put a lot of military maybe like seven or six and the military would face-to-face With the indigenous peoples.

00:14:27: That's why if you read some reports in Papua, especially about the business and military.

00:14:34: You will be found that every year there are a lot of cases where indigenous people being a victim by the military... ...you'll see lots of cases like this.

00:14:49: And after we make these that report and we also making recommendation to governments, local government especially but they did nothing until now.

00:15:02: Even like Ica already explained about special autonomy We have a special autonomy which can't provide our rights But the implementation of special autonomy is not in Papua.

00:15:17: From my research We found that the Indonesian approach of militarization and also resource extraction has been implemented with basis racism, violence that surpasses even what is being implemented in any other part of Indonesia.

00:15:36: And this pattern of violence or research extraction which began in Suharto regime maybe even older and continues under the current special autonomy.

00:15:49: This has proved to be harmful not only for Papua's environment, but also to Papuan people' dignity And this is one of the factors that keeps the political conflict in Papua going.

00:16:15: Of course, we are also talking a lot here in Hamburg but also Germany and I would say the global north.

00:16:21: In general about racism And problems that racism brings for so many people how it's part of their everyday reality.

00:16:30: Now reading how racism is such big issue for West Papuan women really touched me.

00:16:39: At same time i felt confused because kind of different racism from what people here are often time experiencing, unfortunately.

00:16:48: So could you explain to us a bit more like... What is the nature of that racism?

00:16:55: Like who are the survivors and perhaps sometimes victims of this race?

00:16:59: Who was it directed towards?

00:17:01: And who are those people who execute their racism?

00:17:05: I read has lot do with migration Within Indonesia, people coming to West Papua.

00:17:10: But can you explain a bit more this racism that indigenous women are experiencing?

00:17:18: Racism is the worst problem and in Papua we have very minority there And it's different with all Indonesian peoples.

00:17:28: So thats why we face lots of discrimination.

00:17:32: put us into racism.

00:17:36: If you go to Papua, You will see like in the airport.

00:17:41: You'll be seeing no Papuan working there because In Indonesia all of people is Malay and they're very different with us.

00:17:49: I don't know why They didn't put some indigenous people work at an airport if Some papua that worked here maybe just works as a cleaning service.

00:18:05: Also, see if you go to the mall in Papua.

00:18:09: You can't see no more Papuan that work in here especially women.

00:18:13: because my personal opinion I think that In Indonesia If they want give me a job...I have good looking or something like that.

00:18:26: and Indonesia as a Papuan we don't have it.

00:18:29: Because also advertisement in the television that they don't ever involve Papuan people there.

00:18:39: If you're talking about racism, I don't know.

00:18:41: but as a Papuan even in our land we also experienced it and until now Papuan peoples think this is their habit because... Even on the charge You will see at big charges You will see, you know a lot of Papuan people that praying it there.

00:19:05: Because Papuan People right now they don't have more privilege even in their land.

00:19:13: Even again we have special autonomy but never implement... Don't implement in Papua.

00:19:21: And the last two thousand and nineteen maybe all of you already knew Papuan uprising in Jakarta and all the place in Papua because some Indonesian call, Some student in Surabaya as a monkey.

00:19:38: And it's just once.

00:19:42: I also came to Jakarta went to college so i Also my friends.

00:19:47: we experienced lot of things.

00:19:50: when people In my rent house for example The people there will be see us like the strangers, who are they?

00:20:03: And when we talk louder or do something... They'll always protest.

00:20:10: Even in another place that is very near with us people also making crowded don't put them as if they make us.

00:20:21: So discrimination or racism in Papua is very, I don't know but a lot of Papua they also experienced that.

00:20:34: really tell the experience of racism because I'm not Papuan.

00:20:37: But, but i think the Papuan uprising in twenty nineteen is a tip off the iceberg like how Indonesian are seeing Papuans as monkey quote and unquote as monkey And it triggers lots of rally protest about racism for Papuan.

00:20:55: that happened in Indonesia.

00:20:57: It shows bit of how Indonesia oppresses Papuan.

00:21:01: Yeah, and thank you so much for explaining that a bit further.

00:21:06: And also sharing your own experience I think it is somewhat interconnected with the question of racism.

00:21:15: somehow You even said Papuan people maybe in a way are different.

00:21:21: What i read on the book was that for instance for West Papuan indigenous women the forest has a very special meaning, right?

00:21:29: The forest is not just about livelihood in the sense of you know making living.

00:21:35: Making money having an income but it's more also part of cultural identity and even spiritual identity.

00:21:45: I think talking that this really important because it shows how impactful when forests gets taken away So could explain to us How the forest matters in that cultural and spiritual sense?

00:22:01: Like I said before, indigenous women are very close with nature.

00:22:07: Because again based on our culture like for one example if we own a period We have to live away inside the forest from our main family, because we believe that women who have period is a disease.

00:22:38: So they had to go away from home until they finished their period and I think in the specific place of Papua still keep this tradition Not on the old place, especially in some places that they're living alone there.

00:22:57: No other people from outside come to their place and The other is you know In Papua a lot of women Gardening And bring all the stuff from their garden Come into market.

00:23:15: They will sell it.

00:23:17: Indigenous women for me are very strong because can't make their kids go to school with the money that they sell from the market.

00:23:29: But until now, you can see there are no good space in Papua created by government for indigenous people to sail their stuff.

00:23:41: If we go to Papua, a lot of Papuan peoples especially women will put their stuff under some building that's dominating by people from outside Papua.

00:23:54: But they never complain about it, these just... Like I said maybe this thing is a habit or those are usual things and the other things in indigenous women of Papua very creative you know?

00:24:11: They will create our teasers From the stuff, from nature like one wood that we can use it.

00:24:22: We call it Pohon Genemo.

00:24:24: It's very important for indigenous people in Papua because they create our dessert and the bag especially.

00:24:34: They also make the bracelet or necklace the things from nature.

00:24:43: So they are very creative, sometimes some of them make all those things and then sell it in the market.

00:24:54: Yeah, I think in that creativity lies probably a lot of strength as well right?

00:24:58: And at the same time we are here at PBI and off course.

00:25:02: it's PBI's mission.

00:25:03: And i know many people who are listening to this show now or to this podcast now like want to know you know how can we support these women That is so strong!

00:25:13: At the same phase faced with so many challenges experiences that are actually very harmful for them and their very being.

00:25:23: So the day this podcast or show is going to be sent, Friday we're gonna have a big climate strike here happening in Hamburg but also other places.

00:25:34: so I was wondering do you ever message?

00:25:37: For those people who go on the street to demand climate justice, do you have a message for people in Hamburg that are walking the streets and want to support an indigenous woman in Papua?

00:25:49: Or maybe if we had a message from policy makers who might be listening.

00:25:54: What will your demands or wishes come true?

00:25:57: from all these different actors, all this people here in the global north.

00:26:01: What can we do to support your struggle and show our solidarity?

00:26:06: I think when you are talking about deforestation in Papua We cannot not talk about history of conflict And how racism is happening in Papuan.

00:26:17: So it will be Very great if we can gain solidarity from lots of our friends and folks out there that push Indonesia government to stop the mass human rights violation in Papua, also stopped military approach.

00:26:37: And started peaceful dialogue with indigenous Papuans, I think.

00:26:45: Yeah and also your work is a lot about building bridges right?

00:26:50: Natalia what do you think can people here in the North to build these bridges and show solidarity with your people in West Papua?

00:27:00: We need support each other.

00:27:04: maybe today we are talking our rights for our lane because life depends on nature but you will be knowing at the end that we are doing this to protect our nature.

00:27:20: But when we protect ourselves or in the genus Papuan, protect their natural nature it would give an impact on people around the world because if we talk about deforestation and international problems right now all of country calls for stop deforestation or climate change.

00:27:47: And indigenous people seem like as indigenous peoples around the world that they have their mind rule, our important role to protect nature and when they protect the nature for all of us.

00:28:03: so we need support indigenous people in there.

00:28:08: We need to cause Indonesia to stop human rights violation for indigenous people in there because of when they're talking about their land, it will be faced with all intimidation or a lot things.

00:28:21: So we have to support the indigenous people and let's together cause Indonesia sustainability of environmental when they give the permit to a lot of investment in Papua.

00:28:47: Find links and further information on

00:28:50: show notes

00:28:50: for this episode.