Indigene Rechte in Westpapua und der Kampf gegen die Umweltzerstörung - Teil 2

00:00:07: Peace Brigades International

00:00:09: presents

00:00:10: Making Space for Dialogue, Human Rights Defenders

00:00:13: Report.

00:00:16: Good morning everyone!

00:00:17: I'm sitting here today with a few beautiful guests who came along way all the way from West Papua to beautiful Hamburg.

00:00:26: We're sitting at the PBI office and i am very grateful that we have these special guests who are joining me today to produce a podcast.

00:00:34: The podcast is actually part of the podcast series, which focuses on women human rights defenders and special focus now also issues of climate justice Which is big topic here in Hamburg but it's global topic all over the world.

00:00:51: so part of PBIS work gives space for people whose voices have been misrepresented and under-represented, I'm very grateful that i can be part of this journey today.

00:01:04: So in front me there are three women coming from West Papua the first one Rosita Tetsuari welcome.

00:01:14: The second one Veronica Manimbu And the third one Magda Kaffia.

00:01:19: I'm very grateful having you.

00:01:21: All of them are indigenous women from West Papua, who have been fighting for their rights and who've been engaged in the struggle not just to women human right but also climate justice.

00:01:34: so welcome thank-you.

00:01:38: I learned already a lot about what the forest means to West Papua and people, what political struggles are.

00:01:45: And for all of you who're listening to this but don't know much about West Papu or their political context, struggle with Indonesia – I highly recommend listening before where we spoke with two other guests on border issues today focus on the experiences people make in West Papua and the struggles that women are engaged with.

00:02:11: So, we have been speaking a lot about problems of deforestation And I think to really understand what deforestation means for the peoples of West Papuwa and the women in particular We need to understand the role of forest.

00:02:27: Could one of you explain to me a bit more which meaning the forest has for not just economically but also perhaps on spiritual or cultural level?

00:02:39: We are very close to the forest, with land.

00:02:54: Because from the forest we take food,

00:03:03: medicines and ingredients for economic development

00:03:38: of Buddhism.

00:03:39: For us Papuan women forests are very important.

00:03:44: Papon women are very dependent to the forest because they have It's a source of their livelihood.

00:03:49: They have their food and also there traditional medicine And lots of customary knowledge about that.

00:03:57: identity Also came from the forests.

00:03:59: For us, Papon Women Forest is very important.

00:04:02: We're very dependant on the forest.

00:04:04: we use The forest as the sort of our livelihoods.

00:04:08: We found out food in it.

00:04:13: Lots of our customer knowledge came also from the forest.

00:04:16: I think part what you said with that, You spoke about how.

00:04:20: it's not just about The livelihood but also the culture and identity And i would be curious if could share a bit more About your spiritual practices or religious practices That are interconnected With the forest.

00:04:35: Please explain more about the relation between religion and culture.

00:04:58: How is the philosophy of culture with women?

00:05:09: Our philosophy for women in the forest?

00:05:14: We women think that the forest is

00:05:20: very

00:05:21: precious to us, because it's like a drop of rain from a woman who was crying.

00:05:33: So if the forest in the field is over, then just as much as with women will be over the land of Papua and

00:05:50: the forest... Our forests are like our beating hearts.

00:05:52: So when there's no forest, that is the end of life In a forest.

00:05:58: we learn lots things.

00:06:01: We learned how to use what Plants are for what?

00:06:06: And also the kids learning about who they're doing and their relation to forest.

00:06:51: I'm Veronica Manimbu from Es Papua, from where I live.

00:06:55: The forests are actually a conservative forest but government gave a concession to the corn plantation and because the forest are now gone, we lost our place to live.

00:07:10: Because we basically lived doing activities mostly in the forests.

00:07:15: They didn't get the right information.

00:07:23: They thought that when they gave their forest to the company of Kelapa Sawit, it was just like when they only had one or two logs in the field.

00:07:50: But then as they gave them to Kelapa sawit, Kelapasawit's company, the forest was cleaned up and I saw a few old people.

00:08:04: They were struck, they were sick.

00:08:07: And I asked what caused them to be sick?

00:08:14: They said that when their forests are cleaned up... ...they also live in the wild.

00:08:20: Everything they have inside is taken away.

00:08:24: So it's okay for them.

00:08:26: because of their wealth, their heritage and culture,... They were taken with the life of Papua people.

00:08:37: They killed Papuan people as well.

00:08:40: I'm Magdalena Kavya from GPIC Evangelical Church in Papua, I am not a very indigenous person but since i work with lots of indigenous peoples in Papuwa dependence and how the relation between indigenous people in forests are very close, they cannot be separated.

00:09:07: When lots of indigenous peoples thought when they were giving their forest it's like around one or two trees for wood logging but actually saw that the forest is being cleared Lots of them fell sick.

00:09:30: They immediately feel... like some kind of illness, because they just realize how it is very close to their heart.

00:09:40: How their forests are and how the forest is a source for identity or culture And also how there have so many sacred places inside their forests... ...and also how far as the source of their livelihoods.

00:09:57: Since then lots of them This is like a prison.

00:10:06: But... My brother explained who actually came to Papua and did the deforestation.

00:10:22: Who really came?

00:10:25: Maybe it was people from anywhere that came for a deforestation in Papua.

00:10:37: The person who came then made the deforestations, what steps my mother took... What is your current business?

00:10:51: They came and killed

00:10:55: us.

00:10:57: We were looking for a shelter, we took medicine to help my mother who was born like that... ...and the lives of

00:11:36: our

00:11:37: people are gone now because there is no

00:11:46: other way.

00:11:48: In our forest, actually the company has a concession for palm oil plantation but because indigenous people are against palm oil plantations they're conversing it to corn plantations.

00:12:03: Land grab lots of our forest.

00:12:05: We lost our source of medicine and also sagu forests, which is our staple food are also lost And the indigenous people are outraged and we're now fighting against the corporation that's in out forest.

00:12:23: Okay here I will add a little bit.

00:12:25: The problem is that the company comes from outside Indonesia to invest in our country.

00:12:33: But there, we have regulations that foreign companies can't enter Indonesian countries but they will invest with their country and then they'll go inside.

00:12:52: When they come to us, they will use a few people to take our land.

00:13:05: They came there and took the land with how.

00:13:14: they took one or two people who had economic interests... ...and worked together with them.

00:13:23: They gave land to the farmers.

00:13:27: The land was then taken by the farmer.

00:13:30: This deforestation happened, not only in our area but almost all of Papua.

00:13:39: And what we did is that I will tell you a little bit about what we do when it comes to us.

00:13:48: We see things and feel uncomfortable.

00:13:53: We made a group of women, and we started to work on it.

00:14:00: We saw that the forest was about to end so we had to do something.

00:14:09: So when we gathered together with each other in order for us to protect our forests... ...we formed an organization.

00:14:21: Because we feel that if we walk on our own, we can't fight the country.

00:14:32: But for organizations and clubs to fight this company.

00:14:44: The steps we take are to continue consolidating the community from market to market

00:14:57: with a group of women.

00:14:58: In Indonesia, international companies cannot go straight investing to.

00:15:03: in Indonesia there is a regulation that obligate international company to have some kind of micro-company or cooperating with national companies.

00:15:15: Then, usually the national companies conducting plantations at any industry so went to our village in Jaya Pura by using the government access also

00:15:32: and

00:15:33: they were isolating like one or two indigenous people from our place.

00:15:38: And, in a manipulative way give people false hope about how their gonna live freely with lots of money.

00:15:48: there are some indigenous peoples that can be cooperating in this evil business that they just gave money and give permission, but the company never asked all the indigenous people about what they thought with the company itself.

00:16:04: So there were isolating like one or two people and then bergain with them about some money to have the permission for the forest.

00:16:14: And seeing that Indigenous People especially women...Indigenous Women weren't happy because they saw their forests are being turned into the palm oil plantation.

00:16:29: They made a collective, an indigenous women organization and since then they were actively speaking about Indigenous people rights It's important and never to give them the company, also about women's rights.

00:16:45: They do meetings trying to consolidate other indigenous communities nearby their places... ...to prevent any land-graving cases from happening in future.

00:17:00: Other than consolidating we try to advocate for government, our land rights, forests.

00:17:09: how we are trying to win our forest back.

00:17:13: I find it very interesting, you know some indigenous people also cooperating and working together with these big companies that come there to plant their plantation and make business.

00:17:29: so i'm wondering if the impact of this company in a way they choose work together.

00:17:38: Has this also brought conflicts among different indigenous people?

00:18:10: Mama dorang punya masyarakat sendiri.

00:18:13: Konflik internal tuh konflik antara keluarga begitu.

00:18:16: Ya,

00:18:17: ini problem yang kita hadapi, misalnya sejak kami mendampingi masyrakat adat.

00:18:24: contoh kasus yang kami bisa berikan misalnya tahun twenty-seven itu Petera Jawali Group ini perusahaan besar dari Malaysia yang masuk untuk beroperasi di wilayah Arsotimur.

00:18:39: He came and made a meeting.

00:18:41: When he returned from the meeting, it happened that there was already an accident with a sign of coming.

00:18:49: The incident also occurred in Kebar.

00:18:54: We got a report on this in July.

00:18:56: The same thing happened at Kebar as well because they only asked to get close.

00:19:04: But what happened is that the name came out... to come and say that they have been released.

00:19:20: In the release, it also turns out that there are many people who had died.

00:19:35: Finally a conflict between the family was formed by themselves.

00:19:39: They were angry because some of them accepted the company but others did not.

00:19:53: But in practice this has always been done by companies.

00:19:59: They took or removed Papua forest function.

00:20:01: Almost all of Papua, they did the same practice and came to conflict with their father as a child because when they entered, they used talisman money.

00:20:15: Talismans that were given there are one hundred million, two hundred million.

00:20:22: And during

00:20:23: distribution it was

00:20:23: not fair so it became a threat.

00:20:24: Yes, this is one of the problems that we are facing

00:20:27: for

00:20:27: me.

00:20:28: when when GPIC Geeka Itana Papua were assisting Indigenous community in Arsotimur.

00:20:35: In the year of Pete Rajawali Group came and had a meeting with us, said it was a social session or just like simple informal meetings.

00:20:47: but after some time they come to give us sign documents.

00:20:57: We didn't know who signed it, or they were claiming the meeting that we had earlier with them was an agreement of concession.

00:21:08: And so there are lots of bad faiths and practices in Papua.

00:21:17: There is also some documents which have been signed by people.

00:21:23: that is already passed away and also like how the company usually have fake signatures on their documents.

00:21:35: The Company in some practice, they gave money to people from community.

00:21:44: then it depends conflict because who gets what?

00:21:52: money and stuff.

00:21:54: When we speak about conflict between different people, We also need to take the gender aspect into account right?

00:22:03: So you're particularly working for the rights of indigenous women And maybe you can share with us.

00:22:12: How is it for you as woman To be part of this development, and how do you feel particularly affected because you are women by these developments of deforestation for instance?

00:22:27: By the problems that we just spoke about.

00:22:33: The manipulation by international corporations?

00:22:38: How is this affecting you or how are you experiencing it especially being women in your societies?

00:22:48: I've already explained it.

00:22:50: My brother told me about the experience of being a

00:22:56: woman

00:22:59: who lives in middle-sized situations, as we have talked before.

00:23:06: What do you mean by that?

00:23:12: The situation and experiences when living in the middle of problems like earlier.

00:23:20: Because women are minority.

00:23:22: Women in Papus, as we have explained earlier.

00:23:27: Yes.

00:23:27: My mother was there alone at night.

00:23:34: The place where we were meeting... ...we had to talk for a week and I was there by myself.

00:23:39: And then it was time for me to wake up.

00:23:46: But that's when they used the equipment.

00:23:49: The military equipment.

00:23:52: to take care of the place where they work.

00:23:56: And I myself asked them out, don't make me pay any more.

00:24:01: But for the people who think that it's like I'm not a local person and they didn't want to listen to my words or hear what I was talking about.

00:24:15: So when we talked... So I didn't have to work there.

00:24:20: That's how it was for me, my mother and myself.

00:24:25: When we arrived at the location of our home, I called them and told their family that they were coming over here so they could stop

00:24:42: us

00:24:43: immediately.

00:24:44: And then I realized that they didn't appreciate me because

00:24:48: I'm a woman.

00:24:48: from what I experienced, where i lost my forest.

00:24:52: Where I usually get my source of livelihood and... ...I saw that the company is using security forces to guard the plantation And also the forests they are about to convert into another plantation.

00:25:11: We had a fight.. I argued with them but The Company never really wanted to hear me, they don't want to negotiate and didn't wanna talk.

00:25:26: After that I contacted my male relatives Only with the male relatives, the company wanted to negotiate it and have a discussion.

00:25:55: They didn't want to talk me because they didn't take me as an indigenous people that has rights of their land or forest.

00:26:06: They only took the male, the indigenous males part As the person who have rights of the forest, I didn't take indigenous women into account.

00:26:23: And this is one big challenge that especially women are confronted with right?

00:26:29: So maybe we can learn a bit more because you're an activist and fighting for your rights and the rights of Indigenous Women.

00:26:39: Can you tell us what's the biggest challenges You see in this fight, what is it that you are struggling with the most?

00:26:52: And where do you maybe also see international presence or international people?

00:26:59: organizations like PBI can support your struggle.

00:27:04: Mama Dorang is an activist who has rights.

00:27:06: We work for the land, we fight and we work together with a lot of people.

00:27:28: So what do you hope from international friends like PBI?

00:27:39: What are they doing now?

00:27:44: Mama dorang harapkan.

00:27:47: Harapan dari kami perempuan dan masyarakat adat Papua bahwa ada perhatian, dan yaa ada perhatihan dari internasional kepada Pemerintah Indonesia khususnya untuk lebih melihat hak-hak Masyarakatan Adat dan melihat perembuan dan anak di Tanah Papua yang kami minta kepada semua pihak will help us.

00:28:18: The first thing I have said is that the development that should be done in Tanapa Pua, is an environment-based development which shows women's rights to protect their children and the next one we would like to make a

00:28:51: special order.

00:28:51: What we hope from the international community and also our friends on folks in other NGO is like how can gain solidarity, raise awareness about We mean an indigenous people's rights in Indonesia and push Indonesian governments to fulfill the indigenous peoples' right, acknowledge the indigenous people rights.

00:29:20: And also women and children rights especially in Papua.

00:29:28: The developed Indonesia government should envision approach of development that is focusing on the environment and also building indigenous peoples' agensi.

00:29:45: When special autonomy law is not only about money, Indonesian government should see it comprehensively as a whole instrument.

00:30:02: Indigenous Papuan can have their own agency and make place for them.

00:30:11: So special autonomy is not about the money, Special Autonomy is about acknowledgement of Indigenous Papuans' rights.

00:30:29: I

00:30:35: hope that the international communities can again push Indonesia government to stop being in denial when it comes to human rights issues.

00:30:48: Indonesian governments

00:30:49: should

00:30:50: really start looking for a solution, to stop human right violation peacefully resolving any issue in Papua.

00:31:01: Yes, our hope is that the people in Papua, Indonesia and internationally can know what we are fighting for.

00:31:19: Why are women important?

00:31:24: I think it's because of my own inspiration to learn from a woman named Adat Papua where they don't have the right to choose.

00:31:36: They only use their rights, but when land and forest are taken away by Papua women it will fight against companies or anyone who comes here to rob them of land.

00:31:55: That's what we're doing today with our friends that show us that women should not be left behind.

00:32:06: We want to move forward.

00:32:09: We have been working with Papua Network, PBI and other friends to help us to facilitate the voice of Papua

00:32:21: women.

00:32:21: What we hope that not only people in Papua or Indonesia, but also international community to know about what really happens in Papuwa.

00:32:30: We are trying to make a platform for indigenous women especially to speak about their challenges and issues in Papuan.

00:32:41: And why is the voices of indigenous women so important?

00:32:45: I learned from Indigenous Papua Indigenous Women.

00:32:50: Papua indigenous women doesn't have the rights to own land, but they can use it and also plan something... ...but don't have their right to own them.

00:33:06: But when it comes to land grabbing

00:33:09: or

00:33:12: forest being taken by other people,... stood in the first line, in defending their forests.

00:33:21: So even though without the rights to own the forest indigenous women are always on front lines of defending their forest.

00:33:31: and we're here but won't be silent.

00:33:35: We will keep moving on voicing speaking about what happens with Papua and Indigenous Women issues of other people to help us make this voice louder and speak more about these issues.

00:33:55: Thank you, I feel like after everything that was shared we learned there is so much strength and courage in your fight And...I just wonder because also talked about oppression.

00:34:11: We talked about military presence.

00:34:15: Not being taken seriously because you are women and not having the same rights as men, so against a backdrop of all these struggles or challenges I was wondering if we could share what gives us hope?

00:34:32: What gives our strength to continue in this way that has been done before?

00:34:36: We

00:34:37: talked about how women who don't have a lot of opportunities, especially the land.

00:34:45: The question is what makes us women?

00:34:48: What makes them brothers or sisters?

00:34:51: What motivates them to fight?

00:34:53: Even though there were a lot of challenges, like what you said earlier.

00:34:59: If I look at the women who are in charge for raising and growing children... ...and those children that will inherit the land of Papua... the generation that will come and women who are trained to give birth, take care of their children.

00:35:17: So it is very important for us to buy land and forests because land and forest are a place where our children will live.

00:35:35: If the forest and land disappear what do we give birth?

00:35:41: It's better if you don't have to give up than giving birth.

00:35:51: Children like that will lose their rights.

00:35:59: Land, forest.

00:36:00: they'll live as people who own their own land.

00:36:04: I see

00:36:06: that women is being blessed by God to have the ability to bear a child.

00:36:16: The forest belongs our children, to our young generations and indigenous women are now protecting the forests for... ...our children.

00:36:29: Land & Forests is where our children will live and continue their lives.

00:36:39: When the forest is gone, where will our children live?

00:36:43: Where would they live when it's gone.

00:36:47: There'll be some strangers in their own place... ...when there are no forests

00:36:54: around.".

00:36:57: I fought because he was my grandchild in front of me.

00:37:09: My grandchild.

00:37:15: If it

00:37:17: wasn't

00:37:19: for myself, nothing would happen to him if I didn't have a son-in-law.

00:37:38: But since there are my children and I remember the time when my grandchildren were born... ...I fought until this day.

00:37:53: The reason why I fight until i came here and am right now is because of my forest and also the future for our younger generation.

00:38:06: If it's not for my children, then I won't be fighting about my forests this

00:38:14: hard.".

00:38:15: I asked for solidarity from all friends to voice more on deforestation in Papua giving permission to extractive industries, to convert any land, grab any indigenous people's land.

00:38:37: To

00:38:38: convert it into any kind of extractive industry in Papua.

00:38:42: strong, but naturally.

00:38:43: I don't know if it's anugra or a gift given by God to women so that even though he experiences injustice in his family as well But when taking care of him

00:39:05: or

00:39:06: holding on what becomes the owner of his own family, especially those related to land I saw a lot of women fighting to defend that.

00:39:40: That's why it became the motivation for land and forest to become our home, for us to live in peace so we can make our own motivations as women.

00:39:56: even though she had many problems or difficulties but still life Forests and lands are important,

00:40:03: so they need to fight in order to maintain what is the role of a man or family member.

00:40:05: For me, what inspires and motivates me until now... ...is how indigenous women in Papua until now even though the patriarchy system still there in other systems but naturally I don't know if it's a blessing Papuan women still fought their best to protect the forest, even though they don't have rights to own it.

00:40:32: Even if its male relatives who owns them but also fight for protection of forests and how they see that the forest is home where they live peacefully struggle and the fight to protect the forest is the collective fight as a community, not only individually.

00:40:59: Thank you so much.

00:41:00: I wish thank for coming here sharing your stories with us today.

00:41:07: Stories in experiences that are full of violence but also strength of courage, of bravery.

00:41:17: Women as fighters and PBI has been supporting this struggle.

00:41:22: we are part of the West Papua Network And will continue to do so.

00:41:27: Continue try build more bridges create more spaces for dialogue solidarity and support.

00:41:34: Thank you very much.

00:41:46: Find links and further information in the show notes of this episode.